I would love to see this site take on Benchmark Hunting.

Member Experience
8
Posted By: 2oldfarts
10/19/2022

Hello everyone, would anyone be interested in Logging Benchmarks? The Geocaching site is deleting all Benchmarks logs and forum and anything that in related to Benchmarks in logs, or caches pertaining to benchmarks! That was a big part of my life with my husband - John there on that site that I am now feeling like I had when they deleted all of our Locationless caches many years ago and we found this site. 

So I am asking if it would be possible to get Benchmark Hunting here on this site? We had over 1,450 logs on GC that will be gone along with all of those recovery pictures.

Just wondering if TC can start something along those lines here? 

Save me again please...

Sincerely, Shirley Bloomfield = 1 of the 2oldfarts


Comments [8]

  • JASTA 11  Bridgewater 10/19/2022 

    That's the first I've heard about it. I'm an avid benchmarker and think it's a shame. It must not be bringing in any money for the frog to pay their volunteers with.

    For me, Benchmarks were the main draw to their site. So I'd love to see benchmark hunting over here. 😀

    30 Points  3   
  • 2oldfarts  Tucson 10/24/2022 

    Thank you Jasta 11 for your thoughts, here is one of my thoughts.

    Would you be willing to post a Locationless Cache about Benchmark Hunting showing one of your own logs and having these links to the NGS?

    https://geodesy.noaa.gov/surveys/mark-recovery/index.shtml

    https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datasheets/SurveyMarks_FAQ.shtml#

    It has been so long ago for me to post a locationless cache that I would not know how to word this one.... Or is there anyone else interested in doing something like this or something similar?  

    Like here is one of John's recoveries...

    Details for Benchmark: ET0094

    (Just hold your cursor over the last link to get John's recovery until the Benchmark Logs are gone from GC, then this link will no longer work.)

    30 Points  3   
  • Johannis10  Engelsbrand 11/5/2022 

    @2oldfarts

    I find it very sad, that the frog wants to delete all benchmark loggs and pictures. The idea of a benchmark cache here at TC I find very good. Had the same idea and when I read here, that others are also interested, I submitted a cache LC3Q87 today. There are already benchmark caches here as well, but no universal ones. Suggestions for improvement I gladly accept. Many greetings Johannis10

    10 Points  1   
  • 2oldfarts  Tucson 11/6/2022 

    I have had the suggestion made to me, that there might be a way to make a new category for Benchmarks, but just not for only one country, but the entire world with many different links to any countries databases for those people to use to go find and then log them here and well as submit a report to the correct country or state along with pictures. It might be more feasible that way than to have LC's with many finders that might mess up the leaderboard counts. So, what do the powers that be - Cash108, Christa or Ag08 think about setting up a category of Benchmark Hunting to go with the caches - Regular, virtual and Locationless? Do we dare think that big and allow the people who loved Benchmarks so much to be able to come here to continue their passion of that sport of logging and talking and bragging about the tough ones that almost were lost? 

    I now step down from my soapbox. And if it would be too much to accomplish, I will understand and will look forward to logging Johannis10's great LC.

    Sincerely, 

    Shirley Bloomfield - 2oldfarts

    10 Points  1   
  • Bon Echo  Hamilton 11/9/2022 

    I also love finding benchmarks although I only had a small number of logs on GC because the database of Benchmarks that they used (only a subset of NGS benchmarks, even though a few of those are on Canadian soil). Frankly, I'm not shocked that GC is discontinuing the Benchmark "cache" - it was pretty much broken from the start. Why? Because the database of benchmarks that they started out with was too selective (a subset of NGS markers only), but moreso because it was a one-and-done transfer of information. While the original NGS database continued (and continues) to be updated, the GC "snapshot" remained stuck in 2005 (or whatever year they grabbed the data from). The NGS database gets updated based on recovery reports (from professionals as well as hobbyists). But there was no way to couple those updates to the GC database. Of course another issue is that most "vertical control" benchmarks (the predominant type of benchmark in the USA and Canada) do not have accurate coordinates in the NGS database (and same for Canadian federal database) - very precise elevations, but wildly inaccurate coordinates.

    So what can we do as benchmark hunters?

    If you live in the US, you can download the program DSWorld from the NGS website. You can view and add recovery reports on NGS benchmarks. So far I've only used it to view benchmarks.  The developer continues to make updates and emails users to inform them of updates and issues. Free. https://geodesy.noaa.gov/PC_PROD/PARTNERS/

    Of course there's Waymarking (I am an officer in the Canadian Benchmarks category). Problem there is that 90% of the benchmarks you might find are not already listed. If you don't mind creating a new listing, you'd be all set. A little bit of work on your behalf and another Benchmark joins the growing list. That said, with this move to shutter the Benchmarks "geocache" category, I wonder how long until Waymarking gets pulled down (although players have been asking that question for over 10 years already). hMeasurement Standards - A Waymarking.com Category


    As an admin on OpenCaching North America, I put in a pitch to have Benchmarks as a dedicated cache category. I had support of the other OCNA admins, but didn't have the support of the develops (volunteers based in parts of Europe). There a move to keep all of the various OpenCaching "nodes" in harmony, makes web development that much easier. To that end, we (sadly) retired a number of "OCNA-only" cache types.


    Here's a link to the OCNA discussion on Benchmarks as a cache type. That discussion began in 2010! Benchmarks and continued here in 2016 New Benchmark cache type

    With all that said, I would be very happy to see benchmarks as a cache-type on TC. The question is, whether to pre-populate the list of Benchmarks using online databases (what Groundspeak did), or let players add benchmarks (like waymarking). Option 1 may be better for "finders" but would require a lot of coding to make it work (and may also require agreements between the various entities like NOAA, NRCan etc). As for the latter,  as already suggested there's nothing stopping us from using the Virtual cache type for a benchmark (I've done that already on OCNA - for example see Misery Station (Benchmark Cache) and 866-F St Walburg SK (Benckmark), BATH - NB1165, or even the Benchmark Cache type template.

    I would suggest that a dedicated cache Type for benchmarks allows for easier filtering. Because really, benchmarks can be ubiquitous. I can add a hundred or more benchmarks just from my city. Compare that to a dozen or less "alt caches" in my area - and you can understand how benchmarks could "drown out" the other caches on a map search. Just something to consider.

    1450 Benchmark finds! That's impressive and I am sad for you to know that record will soon be lost. Is there any (easy) way to save that information before it's lost? 

    10 Points  1   
  • 2oldfarts  Tucson 11/22/2022 

    I have a friend that got me a list of all of the benchmarks logs, but when I started clicking of them, it just opens up the GC site so I can see what is there, so no. Not really to be able to copy and paste away would take way to long to save or post in Waymarking, as you would have to post each and every one and copy the photo and past those into the log of Waymarking. It will just be all gone, but the really sad part was the Benchmarking forums where John and I had posted so much and helped others and had contests. 

    So, I have just been going through all of those pages to read what John had posted to remember all of our good and sometimes great finds and how much we loved going out together and hunting those hard to find that others had not found in a long time. When you can find one that the experts could not find, that was the feather in our caps. 

    So, that will be just one more thing that is being taken away from me that John and I had shared. I had him for almost 50 years, and it is just hard to think that those times will just be deleted.

    But I have a forum called https://ringbone.proboards.com That was created by Kunarion, another GC friend who when they shut down the Off Topic forum on there site, he used his server to start another Off topic forum for whoever wants to come check it out. You don't have to sign in if you just want to look. In Geocache Talk, we started a Benchmark Bye-Bye to talk about it. But that forum you cannot upload pictures of your own like here, as he would have to charge us to come play due to him having to pay for that function. So, right now I have copied and pasted the words of some that I want to remember from the BM forums before they are gone, so when I get low and need to remember the good times, I will be able to go there to read what he typed about our life together.

    Anyway that is enough about that. Now, I just was hoping TC could host something here so I could go out and hunt for those wonderful old marks once in a while and read other peoples posts also...

    Thanks for your time and thoughts everyone.

    Shirley~ 1 of 2oldfarts and now also UNK1

    10 Points  1   
  • 2oldfarts  Tucson 12/11/2022 

    Johannis10's new TCLC has been approved by Cache108 and anyone may now find and log a benchmark anywhere all over the world. Have fun with this and Merry Christmas everyone! That is a great gift that this news has arrived so close to the holidays. 

    A big thank you to Cache108 and his great TC site.

    Sincerely,

    Shirley - Half of the 2oldfarts 

    10 Points  1   
  • Fledermaus  Port Orchard 4/20/2023 

    Since the other website has seen fit to terminate Benchmarks, inspite of their popularity, it does not surprise at all that they don't suppor them anymore. TC needs to "take up the gauntlet" and "run with the ball".

    Furthermore, they did the same thing with Virtuals as well, but then backed-tracked and appointed certain persons to have them, Is that some kind of reward issue or what?

    BTW, greetings and salutations to the "TwoOldFarts"! I am back and I still have and use the camera.

    Ray

    20 Points  2   

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